SmartQuant Discussion

[BlueSky]

Have you considered introducing a Premium Level of support - where the user would pay an annual fee? In my opinion the product is great, and it has a jump on the competition in terms of how developed it is, and it is easier to code in than the competition. However, I would like to have quicker and more consistent level of response to questions posted on the forum. I would be prepared to pay in order to receive a response to questions within 24 hours on business days. The folks over at RightEdge are probably about 9 months behind in the development process, but their support is outstanding - BUT they charge for it - US149 per year.

I could envisage you maintain the current forum as is for new customers testing out the demo, and those that don't need/want premium support, and you set up a section for those that are willing to pay. I think US149 is reasonable for this. Over time there will be a few similar products on the market, and the thing that will get the customers is the level of support. If you are trading for a living you really need it.

Any thoughts?

[RollTheDice]

This is a fantastic idea!!!

What is "said" about this product on the other boards is that the product is the best (which i full agree too, and when I say "thet best" I truely mean it, I love Open Quant, it is hands down the most complete ATS I have come across of) however the support is very slow to respond. I have referred about 10 or so people to Open Quant, and I do get messages from these people saying that they love the product however because their questions are not answered they decided not to purchase!!!! Anton, I can even show you messages from my PM box on elite trader, and show you posts on here from people that I have refered, that were not answered who probably would have purchased

I truely believe that only paying $749 for a product like Open Quant and to receive premium support is truely not fair for SmartQuant, however if you can pay $749 + support fees, I believe both sides will receive a fair deal.

I would really encourage SmartQuant to consider such an option

[maxpi]

Not a bad idea at all. Even if one was beyond the learning stage and things were working fine it would be good to know that one could get support at the Premium level....

[elindydotcom]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. It's one of the reasons I haven't purchased the product. I'd willingly pay for support. I would want options for premium email/forum support, phone support and onsite consulting. Heck double the price of the product, throw in premium phone support and x hours of webinar based consulting for the first year as another option too.

-eLindy

PS: I sent an email weeks ago to Dr. Anton with no response - that's the level of support we have now (and that was an email I was invited to send based on a post in these forums).

[RollTheDice]

Anton could you at least comment on this, or a simple yes or no

[Dr. Anton Fokin]

Well... OpenQuant represents a loss leader strategy as a product but we do benefit from OpenQuant development in many different ways. In other words we do not earn money with OpenQuant, but its development is beneficial to us. Thus selling time of our core developers at $149 per year sounds a bit strange to me

On the other hand we usually reply to direct emails with somewhat higher priority than answering the forum (which is community forum, so that we expect certain help from experienced OpenQuant users) , thus you can consider email as a kind of gold support.

Another possibility is to dicsuss custom development and outsourcing services with us. This is going to cost you ~75-100EUR/hour or fixed agreed fee per project. Then you get what you pay for (references available )

Regards,
Anton

[BlueSky]

Thanks for the reply, there is some interesting and useful information there.

I agree with your statement that selling your developers time at $149 a year does not make sense. I think you would need to make a decision about what constitutes a general question about the product (support) and what constitutes asking your developers to build something for a customer (custom development), but I can understand that sometimes the distinction would seem blurred.

I think this issue has come up because of the different way that most users view the forum and the way that you guys view the forum. I think most users expect that questions on the forum will be answered primarily from someone at SQ, whereas you guys view the forum as a place where users can help each other out, and you will chime in now and then. The result is that many posts go unanswered.

To rectify this I think all you would have to do is make sure that someone at SQ is responsible for going through any posts each day and giving a response to them (maybe share it around where each staff member is responsible for a week). This in many cases will be a simple "yes", "no", "we'll have a look at it", or a request for more information. There generally are not that many each day so it should not be too time intensive. It will make alot of users happy, and will surely generate more sales.

[elindydotcom]

Thanks for the reply. For many of us, this is bad news. Personally, I think you need to decide whether you are in the software business or the custom services business. I want to buy my mission critical software from a company that expects to turn a profit on the software and will therfore put all their efforts into making the product the best it can be. If that means a higher priced product then so be it - at least I'll know the true costs upfront. I do not want to be "baited" by a product and then have to sign up for expensive custom development services to achieve what I need done. I am realistic - I expect to pay a higher price for higher quality software and responsive support. I expect to pay for custom development when my needs are so esoteric that they cannot resonably be expected to be part of the baseline product. The last thing I want to hear is that the software I'm betting my business on is a "loss leader" for custom development services. ugg.

-eLindy

[Dr. Anton Fokin]

I have not said that OQ is a loss leader strategy for custom development services. I rather tried to say that it's no fun to spend time of our core developers at $149 a year and if you still want to pay for their time, you can do it paying for custom development services.

But in general I agree that all forum questions should be answered.

Regards,
Anton

[elindydotcom]

Anton:

I don't think that anyone would want you nor is anyone asking you to spend your core developers time for $149.00 per year. The real question is whether there is true support for the product or not. Right now, there is no phone number anyone can call. There is no option for any kind of paid support. There isn't even a consulting hourly rate posted on the website so customers have some idea on costs. In other words, you have a software product with little to no support attached to it yet you would like folks to develop mission critical applications with it. That does not work in the long run. If you want the product to be a succcess and have lots of customers you will have to provide quality support for it.

Note that by support I mean answering questions by phone email and on the forum. It doesn't mean your core developers answering the phone and writing code for free. It does mean access to a knowledgable live person when needed, updated documentation, short lag times between questions and replies etc. It's NOT free or low cost custom development.

Speaking of custom development, there is no contact phone number on your site - how are prospective customers supposed to even talk to you about custom development?

By your statements you say that the product is a loss-leader. Combine that with the lack of any real support options and it's hard for me personally to bet my business on the product. I would much rather use an inferior product such as tradestaton that offers lots of support options than a "loss-leader" product such as openquant that doesn't even have a phone number posted on the website.

I'm still keeping tabs on the openquant product - if it ever gets some of the basic deficiences fixed and some true support behind it I'll jump right in again for another evaluation but for now, lack of support is one of the big reasons I'm sitting on the sidelines just looking and waiting. I'm hoping you succeeed and get it right...

-eLindy

[RollTheDice]

very well put. I have recommended this product to quite a few people, some I know for a fact that would have purchased, just like eLindy. If perhaps a few questions were answered... there would definitely be more sales... then those customers will tell others and knowledge about the product will be exponential.

Anton,
I really think with this product you can really get a huge customer base, considering many people have stuck around like eLindy, he's on the sidelines waiting for you to just provide some type of support and he's in, along with others that I have personally have recommended to view this product. If people are waiting around and while some others still decide to purchase given the limited support you KNOW you have a great product. OpenQuant is far far better than the competition, just look on elite trader. I opened up the automated trading section, there were 3 posts in the titles on the first page titled "open quant". People are talking about it. and THE ONLY BAD THING IS THE SUPPORT!!!!

I'm with a trading firm of about 80 or so guys. Everyone is always asking if someone knows how to program the API. If I told them, hey you don't know much about computers, and want to put a little time into learning... check out open quant, I'm sure many of them'll jump on the opportunity, they'll tell others... the community grows, and THEN just like what happened with tradestation you THEN don't have to support the forums because the long time open quant customers already do. ~but I don't mention OpenQuant because of the support


Back when I started, Anton you answered EVERY question of mine w/ in 3 hours it seemed like, and that's no joke EVERYONE!!. It was easy for me to get used to open quant because truely the support was so great... and how many licenses did I buy??? and how many good things have I said other forums???


-Anton, you have the BEST product on the MARKET!!! DON'T LET CUSTOMERS WHO WERE GOING TO BUY NOT BUY BECAUSE OF THE SUPPORT

[jayram]

Personally i think the support is excellent - if you view this forum as a resource community. I think it unreasonable to expect technical assistance on tap for questions that should really be answered through our own research and learning. I have learned an amazing amount from reading through the posts here and following links. Most of the questions i see unanswered here can be solved through a little research. (i suspect a lot of issues arise because of a lack of programming knowledge / .NET framework).

If a premium support service becomes available then great, but I'd hate to think the programmers were spending there time answering questions that can be left to the community or our own devices. i want them to keep developing the product. At this price point it beats the competition hands down.

[foible]

I think there has to be a disconnect somewhere.

NinjaTrader is roughly the same price as OpenQuant and it isn't their "Loss Leader", it's their flagship product. All questions on their forum are answered promptly and they still crank out new versions. So what makes them so different from OpenQuant?

Is it a vision or scale issue, where NT has attracted far more customers so their money can fuel more development and support, but OQ is still not making any money?

I'll give you my perspective: I've tried OQ and I loved it. The API was great, the development environment was a dream, and the flexibility was unmatched and NinjaTrader is an unpleasant, awkward, frustrating, limited hack yet I know that when I hit problems, I can get an answer with NT and I can't with OQ. You don't win customers by providing a program with the best technical features, you win by providing a system that they can use. Customers will be devoting weeks and more to develop systems and I for one want to know that some problem down the road won't shut me down. With NinjaTrader, I know that I'll get help to deal with my problems, and with OpenQuant I know that I'll be ignored.


I've got to say that the absence of support makes me feel like OpenQuant is one bad morning away from being AbandonWare. It certainly creates the impression that customers are some unpleasant and disgusting necessity that developers would rather not think about. This thread's a good example: customers are pointing out a serious concern, saying that there's something serious enough to pay for and the sneering answer is that it isn't worth their time.


If "it's no fun to spend time" dealing with customers, then you won't have any.

[Dr. Anton Fokin]

Any specific example of a critical issue that was ignored?

Thanks,
Anton

[foible]